Humans with bad attitudes are now doing the hunting

Discussion in '[TF2] Zombie Survival' started by Yellow Sage, Jan 29, 2017.

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  1. Yellow Sage

    Yellow Sage Moderator
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    Summary video:


    So zombies is supposed to be about zombies that hunt down and kill all the humans and the humans have to survive right?

    Lately, the humans have had a change in attitude due to the GameMe stats and they are going out and doing the hunting of the zombies instead of being hunted by them; sometimes to the point of spawncamping them. They don't care about team play; they only care about killing as much as possible so they get stat credit for it, and they always run away if a huge rush has a chance of overrunning the nest.

    The problems with this are:
    - The zombies leave due to being excessively hunted, so the server becomes inactive
    - The zombies don't bother playing so you can never rush the humans anyway because they stop bothering
    - The game slows down because the zombies never have a chance to mobilize a big rush, because the engineers sneak around and take cheap shots on them
    - Therefore, very few thrilling encounters between hordes of zombies and the defending humans are ever witnessed unless it's on turbine, which has the highest win rate for engineers anyway

    Has anyone else noticed this? The engineers don't go looking for spots and fortify them anymore, they always expand and become cocky and they are ravenous and attracted to gunfire in the prospects of stealing kills from you.

    I think the zombies should have a pity feature, where they get a permanent boost in strength for the life if their death streaks are too high so then the games are balanced and then they wont give up every time the engineers come to spawncamp or are holding too well. The extended spawn uber doesn't do anything about these humans. The engineers already get a hidden boost for getting a huge kill chain so why shouldn't the zombies have one as well? Barely anyone likes playing zombie, you should give them a reason to like it.
     
    #1 Yellow Sage, Jan 29, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2017
  2. coolsurf

    coolsurf New Member

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    its a certain few i mean i sometimes do it and so mainly they get more points usally
    or they should remove points in genral ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)signed
     
    #2 coolsurf, Jan 29, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2017
  3. Jason Voorhees

    Jason Voorhees New Member

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    This post is very true I know I'm not innocent I do these types of stuff all the time. But the medics need some type of buff to help handle the Spawn Camp and pursing engineers no doubt about it
     
  4. NinjaPixl

    NinjaPixl New Member

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    I agree with Yellow Sage. Sure I am guilty of this, I mean who doesn't love just hearing the kill streak sound and seeing the 20 kills, but sometimes people that do this go a little over board making the medics not want to play, causing the game mode die out. To keep this from happening the medics should get a buff as time passes, e.g Speed, more health, stronger melee etc.

    Like what Yellow Sage mentioned earlier, another critical issue is engineers being able to teleport out with ease when their colony is falling apart, this is achieved by either using a teleporter an eureka effect, I believe the eureka effect should be nerfed but not the teleporter, this is due to the eureka effect being able to teleport yourself with nearly no wait time where as if the teleporter has to wait a few seconds until being able to use it again, and by then you would be already dead. The worst of it is you take more supplies from dispensers, when I see engineers use this I see them as a very selfish person. One way to fix this issue could be nerfing the eureka effect to making you one shot. I got many of these ideas from lazyneer's guide (sadly I forgot the name of it) , including the one shot idea.
     
  5. Yellow Sage

    Yellow Sage Moderator
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    I think there are two extremes in a server:
    1) People who just sit in the same spot every round and never leave it for anything, only taking shots at the occasional medic that walks by
    2) People who move around a lot and seek kills on medics, taking it to an extreme that can sometimes involve spawncamping

    Something needs to be done about both. Some degree of aggressive play is advised because its possible for the medics to at least pick off the engineers. If everyone roams, people will just be looking out for the first sign of a medic and suddenly the entire horde will be attracted. The medics will just quit out of frustration. If everyone sits still, the medics just won't bother once they see that every engineer has packed into one spot. The engineers will get bored.

    I'd say the greater of two evils is the overly aggressive play because you're killing and chasing people to the point of making them quit and you're emptying the servers (something that happens a lot in pubs). I think that nobody would roam if the medics were significantly faster than they were now, and nobody would sit still if the medics could hit a lot harder than they could now.

    There are some players whose aims are so good that they can defeat any medic solo. With the roaming and all the open space created there's an opportunity for anyone to take a shot at a medic and not have to worry about missing because the medic will most likely die before they do any significant damage.
     
  6. Rushy

    Rushy Administrator
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    I will implement a system to give zombies a health boost and or a greater healing rate after 2 minutes or so into the match.

    What are you, the players thoughts on this?
     
  7. coolsurf

    coolsurf New Member

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  8. Yellow Sage

    Yellow Sage Moderator
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    It depends what you're trying to nerf. If you add a flat health boost, you're nerfing the entirety of the engineer playstyle. Giving medics health just depends on whether you think the engineers are way too strong as a whole (which doesn't appear to be the case, since medics have a higher win rate on nearly every map - check gameme stats)

    I like the health recovery bit, it means you don't need to wait as long if you're trying to recover after taking unexpected damage. But that's about all it does, it doesn't really help against the greedy engineers that chase you down individually and you can't catch them before they kill you.

    So I've thought of a third idea, perhaps you should allow the medics to gain a speed increase at the 2 minutes remaining mark. It really doesn't change anything regarding defending the engineer nest, so epic fights between the zombie horde and the nest remain. Only that engineers can't run around happily and shoot medics at a distance or run away after taking a cheap shot at one waiting for other medics around a corner. I think that this addition will nerf some very well known spots that are unbalanced against the medics (e.g. the lakeside one, and the turbine vents)

    Or, perhaps give the best medic on the team a boost similar to the flagevent (beer) boost from Watergate. That will encourage friendly medics to bunch up around their leader rather than chase engineers individually and get distracted. I don't know if you can program that into the mode, but it's an idea.

    I'll try and inform other players that you replied, see what they have to say.
     
  9. NightTrotter

    NightTrotter Member

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    I feel like I'm partially at fault for that. For #1, I can say that I do that a lot, but only because it ensures a high survival chance for staying put; when people tend to roam, they tend to die. I do like to change up spots though, just so it doesn't get boring for me or for medics constantly trying to go for the lone engineer (aka me) sitting in a single spot.
    For #2, this happens when there are a low amount of medics that start out, or when engineers are cocky and agree on working together in the field. While this may not really be a problem to some (I like picking them off one by one), being spawncamped is very annoying, and the spawn-protection uber is random when it works and when it doesn't.

    I agree with Yellow Sage that adding a speed boost to medics would deter most engineers from roaming or fighting in the open (as having to deal with 3+ medics solo out in the open is hard enough) because then they'll be chased down. The flagevent boost is also an interesting idea, which would probably convince medics to actually try and work together, instead of charging 1 by 1. ._.
    These 2 will help in 'nerfing' spots, but only if medics are good enough. All spots can be good, and all spots can be bad, depending on the players involved; any spot can be broken through, as long as medics are willing to work together (I actually managed to get medics to listen to me on turbine and we broke through vents successfully)

    However, one thing that Yellow Sage didn't mention are the increasing numbers of 'friendly' medics, where they don't try and kill engineers. This is partially due to being friends, or congratulating someone on finding an unusual spot, but the biggest reason for the other friendlies is due to 'not willing to lose points'. I'm pretty sure if you make medics somehow more fun to play for other players, they'll stop doing this. (Besides, I'm one of the few that actually like to play medic if I die, since I get to sneak-kill the roaming 'cocky' players a lot) Most players just don't try playing as medic because they think in their minds that it's already over, what's the point in trying and just losing points.



    In summary, I do agree that something needs to be done to make medic more entertaining for those players who fear constantly dying against a brick wall and losing points. However, I don't think #1 is an issue because that is kind of the premise of the game; hole up and survive. Medics can work together to break through a sitting defense; just depends on the players involved, once again. To be honest, having engineers panic in a large rush and running away nearly always gets them killed, so it's their fault if they choose to run. Issue #2 I actually haven't seen much of that on the California server, but I've seen it a few times and I understand it from Yellow's perspective.



    Completely side note: Hey Yellow, what do you think of a 3 tiered defense? 1 engy crouched on disp in back, 1 engy standing on a teleport exit with their disp in front, and 1 engy crouched in front of that disp, with a teleport exit in front of them? I need to test this on some map, perhaps turbine outside the vents :)
     
  10. Yellow Sage

    Yellow Sage Moderator
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    I didn't make this clear enough in my message, but I do agree that the friendly medics are a problem. They usually stop bothering because 1) they can't break through a defense where the entire engineer team is sitting in one spot or 2) they're being hunted constantly so they won't charge. I find it especially annoying when someone on the zombie team starts a conga line or a kazotsky kick and tries to make that an excuse for gathering medics together and by the time they reach the engineers the round ends. Medic does need to become more fun to play. He's really, really slow to play compared to engineer.

    Also, regarding your side note, any good defense can be broken through if the medics are coordinated. I really wouldn't trust that setup if its possible for medics to come sit on my head and smack me from more than one side, and with only one dispenser as insurance.

    -------------------------------------

    LATE EDIT: In case you want to see visuals of what I have an issue with, I've got a video.
     
    #10 Yellow Sage, Feb 2, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2017
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