General Complaint about Zombie Survival itself.

Discussion in '[TF2] Zombie Survival' started by SkyanUltra, Jun 2, 2020.

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  1. SkyanUltra

    SkyanUltra New Member

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    I've always loved zombie survival games, they're very fun when done right and I always have a blast playing them. But, something I don't like about Engi vs. Medic is the lack of variety. You have all these weapons, and sure while they do have playstyles they're often not far enough from the basic engineer to be considered very different. It would be cool to have more ways to play the game, but sadly I don't really have any great ideas on how to do this.
     
  2. Jack5

    Jack5 Moderator
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    Currently there do exist multiple ways to play the game, however these additional ways end up leaving a sour taste in the mouth of Medics. That is the main reason for all weapons and maps slowly converging on a specific playstyle. Could you be a little more specific in what variance you're looking for?
     
  3. SkyanUltra

    SkyanUltra New Member

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    Some variations to the default engi stats would be neat. giving certain items more focus on tanking damage, or escaping from zombies, or other such things would be nice. medics are relatively unique currently, and giving engis the same sort of thing with different focuses on things like building or defending would be nice.

    (edit: yes i know about wrangler but giving it a slight buff to the players speed while deployed and a slight nerf to the players overall health by about 10 or so would be nice)
     
  4. Yellow Sage

    Yellow Sage Moderator
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    This is very difficult as the widowmaker is the weapon that maintains the balance for engineers currently -- without that, engineers would win far less. Therefore the widowmaker is going to be picked as the most common weapon of choice regardless of if we introduce variances to other weapons. We can create unique mechanics on weapons, but if they don't match up to the already delicate standard of the widowmaker they'll be discarded anyway.

    We are doing our best to introduce varied gameplay via bonus rounds and unique gimmicks/mechanics in our maps but as mentioned tends to sometimes be disliked especially when playing as medic (hidden and doom are notorious examples).

    Some of the current barriers to varied gameplay are the following:
    • Engineers always flocking to a "meta" spot
      -- zs_steel has attempted to address this issue but is an unpopular pick now
      -- Some other maps that are popular are notorious for certain meta spots e.g. upward, goldrush

    • The widowmaker maintains the current balance for the engineers
      -- We have tried to balance other weapons but they simply don't work in certain situations such as defending the nest
      -- Top players tend to be widowmaker users with the exception of some users, however these tend to limit themselves on purpose

    • Engineer and medic are the only fair classes for this game mode (any other class on RED would be op, and any other on BLU would be useless)
      -- With the exception of demoknight on BLU, but the charge granting crits would create significant problems in engineer defence especially when they are oneshotted on the front line

    • The skill levels of the engineers has an extreme effect on the win rate of a map -- allowing too much room for engineers may make the game unfun for medics in the presence of a skilled-enough engineer
      -- Example rottenburg which is sometimes perceived as a farming/roaming map but has a lower-than-desired engineer win rate

    • Players find medic unfun even if they have the variety required to win
      -- Players tend not to rtv a map if they are engineer, only the moment they become medic (especially if the map is perceived as engineer-favourable)
      -- Many players tend to give up as medic if they perceive the balance is too stacked against them. Depends on the skill level of the enemy and the perceptions of the map

    So we would be looking for ideas to address those barriers without making engineers/medics hate it and not want to play it at all.
     
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  5. SkyanUltra

    SkyanUltra New Member

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    well why not try some ideas out?
    the pomson 6000 could become a heavy damage weapon, with a slower reload speed and a lowered firing speed bonus, with extra damage. given the fact that its bad in cramped spaces, players with this weapon could take the frontline of the defenses more often to deal high damage to the zombies and keep them away, but outside they would be in trouble as their reload would take a while. it'd be like a diet rocket launcher, without the blast damage.

    the rescue ranger could give the player the ability to heal your teammates a bit if the projectile hits them, similar to the crusaders crossbow. if this is impossible to do, perhaps it could get an increase in fire speed to help boost it up in viability?

    i know you guys are going to hate me for this, but if you can at all try to change the secondary fire projectile that short circuit has to deal less damage, maybe act more as a pyro's airblast? it would give the weapon more defensive capabilities and could rival the pistol in usefulness.

    southern hospitality could be given a tank ability, for while its out the player could gain a 25% damage resistance while deployed. if its possible to give a weapon a head mechanic, similar to the Eyelander, the southern hospitality could get a nerfed version of it as it would support attacking medics head on as a all or nothing option.

    last but not least, while this is a bit of a dumb idea, if possible at all try to figure out a way to make dispensers grant revenge crits on the frontier justice, the amount depending on the level of the dispenser. along with that, you could do a similar effect with the panic attack, instead giving 2 seconds per level of increased fire rate and damage.
     
  6. Jack5

    Jack5 Moderator
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    Our philosophy behind balances has always been to try and stay close to the original intention of the weapons while making them more or less effective depending on the baseline standard. A majority of these changes are fully against this, and so we can't implement them. In addition, some of your proposals are just flat out impossible because no item attributes exist to make them a reality.
     
  7. Moonie

    Moonie New Member

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    I have an idea that I have been thinking about for a while. You guys should try taking some of the mainstream maps out of the rotation periodically, so that different maps are played and players can get a chance to truly get the feel of them.
     
  8. Jack5

    Jack5 Moderator
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    Good luck telling that to Rushy. He knows full well that removing too many standard maps will only decrease the average number of players on the servers.
     
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