Greetings and Balancing/Optimising Suggestions

Discussion in 'Zombie Survival' started by Jack5, Feb 17, 2017.

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  1. Jack5

    Jack5 Moderator
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    Hello, Rushy Servers crew. My name is Jack5 from Steam, YouTube, Vidme and alike, and I have become increasingly interested in your custom gamemode since my return to Team Fortress 2. I have noticed, however, that you have an enormous collection of maps, but none of them have been optimised for the gamemode, and the same can be said for the core mechanics as well. I have a GameBanana account where I have previously posted custom maps and HUD elements for Team Fortress 2, and if you allow it, I would be happy to resume my modding abilities in my spare time to convert existing Team Fortress 2 maps into Zombie Survival compatible counterparts. This generally means removing doors and cheap spots that Engineers can abuse. Maps that I intend to convert currently stand at cp_sunshine and cp_inferno. If I am given the opportunity to convert maps and also create special files for your gamemode, I expect that you will give this gamemode the same competitive treatment that I am offering right now, even if only on one server, which means limiting the number of maps that the server hosts and implementing, if not listening, to the ideas I have for fixing core mechanics. Thank you for reading, and I wish you all the best; Jack5.
     
  2. Rushy

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    Hello, yes if you are willing to do this in your spare time I can absolutely create a zombie server just for this. If it is popular I can even add the maps onto the other servers
     
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  3. Jack5

    Jack5 Moderator
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    I am currently working on zs_inferno. I will post to this thread with a link once finished, as well as suggestions for the dedicated server.
    The server closest to me is Zombie Survival [Rushy Servers] #1 NEW, followed by the two OLD servers.
     
    #3 Jack5, Feb 18, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2017
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  4. Rushy

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    Alright cool. The 'old' servers will be shutdown at the end of the month, as they where on a dedicated server with old hardware in it (2010 ish hardware) that I won 12 months free hosting a year ago. Hence the 'new' ones are on a dedicated that I am paying for that I got at the start of this month.

    I do have a second zombie server on the new dedicated, which I can easily set a dedicated 'custom' instance up on for map testing
     
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  5. Jack5

    Jack5 Moderator
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    Ok. Here are some optimisations that you might also want to test on the second server. Yellow means important and red means unstable:
    • Blue team can switch between Medic, Heavy and Scout.
    • All people on the blue team are given Voodoo-Cursed Souls based on their class (Full Moon holiday mod required).
    • A Heavy's attack range and movement speed are half that of a Medic's, and it can only jump once.
    • A Scout's attack range and movement speed are double that of a Medic's, and it can jump three times.
    • A Heavy's attack power and health are double that of a Medic's.
    • A Scout's attack power and health are half that of a Medic's.
    • Engineers have increased running speed so they are able to slightly outrun a Medic.
    • Heavys do not auto-heal, yet Scouts auto-heal twice as much as Medics.
    • Scouts attempting to use the Sandman or the Wrap Assassin will be forced to use the stock Bat.
    • Heavys attempting to use the Holiday Punch will be forced to use the stock Fists.
    • The only non-custom maps allowed in the rotation are arena_watchtower, cp_junction_final and ctf_doublecross... for now.
     
    #5 Jack5, Feb 19, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017
  6. Jack5

    Jack5 Moderator
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  7. Yellow Sage

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    I've read and noticed this thread for some time. I can't personally review your map zs_inferno right now because it's on arena mode and I haven't set up a server to load the map on, so I can only enter solo and it won't let me play.

    I'm going to give my input on your ideas.

    I saw these bullet points for your possible optimisations to the gamemode, which I have a few problems with.
    - No, there is a big reason why heavies and scouts don't exist on this gamemode. Heavies don't exist because they're too slow and can't catch the engineers, and scouts will be annoying as hell with the bad hitreg the servers get sometimes especially with players that have high ping.
    - I guess the voodoo-cursed souls thing makes sense, however not everyone wants to wear it.
    - DO NOT INCREASE THE ENGINEERS' SPEEDS. We have a big problem on the servers right now where medics are hunted down by the engineers instead of the medics hunting them, so we really don't want engineers running around that are uncatchable.

    I'm also a bit skeptical at what you mean by removing doors and cheap spots used by the engineers. Do you intend to turn this gamemode into a battle engineer gamemode where the engineers are running around freely instead of defending a nest? There is already a gamemode like that called zombie survival; this one is called zombies, which is its own variation on the zombie defense. If so, you will need more opened up maps rather than closed off ones. If not, the fact that the gamemode should be based around engineers that pick a hold-off point and defend it with their lives should remain the same. You will need to rethink your map design with this in mind, the engineers on this gamemode hate maps where there's nowhere to set up a base (the evidence is shown in the gameme stats, cp_burghausen_rc1 is the most unpopular map and also the lowest human win rate).

    Also, one more thing; creating maps with too many spots is bad because the engineers will always be disorganized. Encouraging players to roam too much screws over the players who are working hard defending the nest for the other humans because the ones that roam die off and eventually come back to destroy the nest in mass. I'd recommend making a map with a few good spots but not too many or little, because either you'd never get a good base set up or the map would be boring.
     
  8. Jack5

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    Simply load the map in Team Fortress 2 and type in the command tf_bot_add to summon a stationary second player so the round will start.

    I totally understand this, and in hind-sight, this idea isn't very well founded, so it can be ignored. Instead, defense or attack buffs can be added to the Medics later on in development.

    You should be able to turn off the item by entering the !help menu (or similar) and following the numbers to turn off the item. On that server, your choice will be remembered.

    Again, not a well founded idea on my part.

    zs_inferno does contain some hallway spaces, but for the most part has been designed to avoid engineers sticking in one giant group. This is most problematic in ctf_turbine, where engineers know exactly where to go, thus solidifying their victory. The gamemode's progression of waiting for confused first-timers to wander off and get killed is horrible, and this will only remain a problem in maps that have definitive engineer camp spots.

    Strangely, I find myself agreeing with this, meaning that zs_inferno probably doesn't have good use in Medic VS Engineer. What I SHOULD do is run myself through the existing maps and create a whitelist of maps with an average number of engineer spots.
     
  9. Yellow Sage

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    I had a look through the map zs_inferno. Unfortunately, there's no good spots for the engineers to set up except possibly this spot:
    upload_2017-2-20_20-14-12.png
    So unfortunately, I don't think it's going to be very popular.
    The problem is that basically every room has two entrances, so it would be extremely difficult to coordinate to defend the spots. I know you wanted to avoid having cheap one door spots in the game but sometimes those are necessary, and there need to be spots like those that are also easy to access for the zombies so they aren't as cheap as they look.
    The maps with good spots are the ones that have open spots but are difficult for the zombies to get in.

    So either you need a spot that's very closed off that's easy for zombies to reach, or a spot that's open but hard for zombies to reach.
    The vents in turbine are closed off and hard for zombies to penetrate, so the engineers love it. A coordinated zombie team can break through it though through healing.

    Example of closed spot that's easy to reach: 2fort or goldrush (slightly geared towards zombies)
    Example of open spot that's hard to reach: process, badwater or upward (these three maps are very balanced)
    Yuck: fastlane, lakeside event, viaduct event

    My friend suggested that you might want to port the map mirage over to the zombie game mode rather than this one, because he agrees that there aren't any good spots on inferno.
     
    #9 Yellow Sage, Feb 20, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2017
  10. Jack5

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    Arena Map Grading (Number of spots in brackets, Bugged or unfair, Neutral, Good with <7 spots)
    • Arena Badlands (3): RED spawn is the most prominent spot.
    • Arena Byre (4): Voted by engineers as bad.
    • Arena Granary (3): RED spawn is the most prominent spot.
    • Arena Lumberyard (1): Map is bugged: engineers can hop onto the train nearest them by placing teleporter exits.
    • Arena Nucleus (3): RED spawn is the most prominent spot.
    • Arena Offblast (4): RED spawn is the most prominent spot.
    • Arena Ravine (9)
    • Arena Sawmill (6)
    • Arena Watchtower (0)
    • Arena Well (5): RED spawn is the most prominent spot.

    Alright, I'll see what I can do, but it may be a little harder to do since Mirage isn't an existing port as far as I'm aware.
     
    #10 Jack5, Feb 20, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2017
  11. Yellow Sage

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    If you want to study maps by win rate or popularity, here you go. This will be useful to you. You can also check kill rates and also areas of high traffic.

    http://stats.rushyservers.com/maps/tf2

    On that note, you listed byre as a good map because it has less spots but the engineers hate it. Lol
    They only go to one spot on that map. 89% zombie win ratio.
    So it's a bit hard to tell what makes a good zombies map
     
  12. Rushy

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    I have to agree with Yellow Sage on this one. However if you removed the block from this roof top, it will make a good spot for engineers:

    upload_2017-2-21_17-40-32.png

    I will be adding in force holidays, just to allow players to equip Halloween and full moon items (Like how it is on the idle servers)

    With regards to the speed. I am thinking of buffing up medics speed by about 5-8% either all the time or in the last 120 seconds
     
  13. Yellow Sage

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    Personally, I'd prefer last 120 seconds, but I'll grab some more opinions on this and either reply/edit this post.
     
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  14. Jack5

    Jack5 Moderator
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    I will instead focus my efforts on a separate thread within Zombie Survival, where I'll be voting maps including ones I create. I'll still visit this thread from time to time, but not as actively as before.
    Note that it is probably better to turn on the Full Moon event and not Halloween, as during Halloween bosses appear and many other models are changed, ruining the entire gamemode. You will also need to change the MOTD, because it will obviously say the default "Welcome and enjoy the full moon! Our map rotation is:".
     
  15. Yellow Sage

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    Rushy, I've obtained opinions on the suggested speed change now.
    People are in support of the option to increase speed at 120 seconds.
     
  16. Rushy

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    Will modify the code tonight and roll it out tomorrow
     
  17. Yellow Sage

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    Thanks, I'll transfer this news to the players when they're online especially when it begins to happen. Also, thanks for the pumpkin fix, it seems to work fine.
     
  18. Rushy

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    Was a bit busy today. I am uploading the new version as of writing this, made it 14% of a speed increase, which in game 'feels' like about 8%
     
  19. Jack5

    Jack5 Moderator
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    Thanks for enabling Halloween items! While on another Zombie Survival server I noticed something your servers lack: A constant HUD. You only display the last 10 seconds BEFORE the last two minutes, so maybe instead you could display the entire time of the round? You know, mm:ss? Oh, and also, instead of measuring the map time in rounds, I would measure it in time. That way, there's more opportunity for people with slow connections to hop onto the Turbine map, for example.
     
  20. Yellow Sage

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    I've never felt more threatened by the medic boost than I have now, it's a good buff and it makes everyone play more flexibly. Ty rushy
    Some broken spots were indirectly nerfed by the change too, the medics can scale huge gaps with their jumps. (Notably the broken badwater roof spot, the lakeside spot and gorge event became easier for medics; I predict it'll have a big impact on borneo too)

    Though the medics still seem to be demotivated until the boost comes. Lol
     
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